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TOPIC: SHOPBOT ~ How much should I bid at auction?

SHOPBOT ~ How much should I bid at auction? 25 Sep 2016 11:12 #1

  • Jon
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An auction company in Mississippi is auctioning off a Shopbot Buddy Router in "Excellent" condition. Whats the top number I should bid?

SHOPBOT ~ How much should I bid at auction? 26 Sep 2016 09:57 #2

  • Dan Sawatzky
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An online search will reveal that a Shopbot Buddy 32 new starts at $8K and a new Shopbot 48 starts at $10K Any number of accessories or optional spindles can add up from that point in a hurry.

I'm not a Shopbot guy but I would suggest a starting point of half of those numbers (or less) if it is in really good condition with low hours. Remember you are buying 'as is where is' with no warrantee and support in setting up or assembly.

I am sure there are others here more experienced in this type of machine who can offer more suggestions.

-grampa dan
Dan Sawatzky
Sawatzky's Imagination Corporation
Yarrow, British Columbia, Canada

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SHOPBOT ~ How much should I bid at auction? 26 Sep 2016 11:12 #3

  • Leo Voisine
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I am also not a shopbot guy.

I am a manufacturing engineer and as part of my professional life I buy and install machines in the metal working industry.

I agree with Dan. Get the value of a new machine with all the same options. Options add to the value. A shop bot with a dewalt router does not have the same value as the same router with a Perske 3hp variable speed spindle. Options, can be as much as the base machine.

Set the price you are willing to part with and don't go over that price.

Just keep in mind also that a NEW machine from Hytech of from China can be a comparable machine at the same price as a used shopbot. It can also possibly be a more robust machine. Several on this forum have had very good results with a Chinese machine - myself included.
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SHOPBOT ~ How much should I bid at auction? 30 Sep 2016 12:30 #4

  • Kurt Rosenzweig
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I too have joined the Chinese club. I just sold my 4x8 PRT Shopbot that I bought used for exactly what I paid for it 6 years ago. $6000. It was a good machine to cut my teeth on for sure. If you wanna skip a step (No pun intended) i would take Leo's advice. The new machine is an upgrade in all aspects. Just natural progression I suppose. Due here November 3rd. Can't wait.

SHOPBOT ~ How much should I bid at auction? 30 Sep 2016 20:34 #5

  • Lynda Wayne
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Signs of the Times had an ad wrapped around it for an Echo 44 router. Any opinions on this machine? It's a tabletop model. Inexpensive.

SHOPBOT ~ How much should I bid at auction? 01 Oct 2016 15:37 #6

  • Leo Voisine
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Linda,

I don't have opinions about any machines, per se. To me ALL machines are basically the same. Some are built better than others.

I looked at the Echo 44 that you refered to. Looks like any other machine in that category. It has round rails and ball screws.

I bought a FAR more robust machine. than that for not all that much more money. Mine is with rach and pinion drives and square HiWin rails, also with a water cooled spindle and with a 36" long 10" diameter 4-th axis with integrated 4-th axis drives. I paid $5200 for the machine. Of course there was more expenses and logistics to import the machine.

A couple of years ago our Chinese contact offered up a 48x48 machine for $2400, but would need to be imported. Add $1500-$2000 to get the machine here. Still, that's more machine than the Echo, a LOT more machine.

There is a LOT to think about when buying a machine. SUPPORT, can be as valuable as the machine itself. From China, there is very little support.
Leo

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SHOPBOT ~ How much should I bid at auction? 01 Oct 2016 19:17 #7

  • Lynda Wayne
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Yes...that support would be important for us as we have never run one of these before...space is a problem here, also, but I know my husband would love one of these. He is an excellent wood worker & could make good use of this tool, along with our sign business. The CSA people sent me to you guys for advice, lol. Beautiful work here.

SHOPBOT ~ How much should I bid at auction? 01 Oct 2016 21:21 #8

  • Patrick Stoning
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Lynda,

I am over on CSA also. I built my own machine twice!!! THE ABSOLUTE BEST VALUE is an imported machine like LEO is describing with only one caveat.....DSP chinese controls. The one LEO talks about is a steel built machine incredibly rigid and in the router business, rigidity is the most important factor.

A few of the guys here run the chinese machines, currently I would have no problem going that route with my experience, but as a complete novice I would be scared not to have someone baby step me through it.

Then again no one baby stepped me through building one and learning one, but I am the type of person who can do/build whatever I set my mind to.
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SHOPBOT ~ How much should I bid at auction? 02 Oct 2016 08:10 #9

  • Leo Voisine
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Support certainly has value. IF, and I will add the IF could be significant, you guys learn stuff easily, have some decent mechanical aptitude (do you fix your own car), and little bit of electronics aptitude (do you fix your own computer), and a little software savy (CAD, corel, software drivers etc) then with forums and whatever you get from China could be enough support. Ypu should consider that this is a big step and the learning curve is pretty steep. Patience will certainly be a virtue.

There is also Jason and Melissa with Hytech Routers. You get the machine and at least some of the support. They are very helpful and I believe they go to your place and help you setup.

I think though, if you really do need a lot of baby steps and a lot of support, the brand names like Camaster would be top of the line for support. But they are also top of the line on price.

From a software programming standpoint I am a Vectric loyal customer. I think they are the best on the planet for the stuff we do. The support from a programing standpoint at Vectric is second to none. Even Camaster is not going to give programming support. They will only be machine support. ArtCAM is also a great contender for programming. Enroute is another. Rhino is another and more functionality, but also more expensive. There are lots of free programming packages, but they are more difficult to learn, don't offer a lot of support and generally not a complete package. Then there are the "top of the line", MasterCAM sort of packages but they are 10's of thousands of dollars.
Leo

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SHOPBOT ~ How much should I bid at auction? 04 Oct 2016 06:53 #10

  • John Miller
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Here's my story, I have been in the sign business since 1970 and wanted to add a CNC machine to our shop. I had absolutely no experience with CNC, didn't even know what to look for in a used machine. I decided to buy new. Multicam was the brand I chose after lots of internet research. When I was told the machine I wanted would cost 80k plus shipping and set-up I shifted gears. I finally chose Laguna out of CA. My machine has been running for close to 5 years now with minimal problems that were solved over the phone the day we encountered them. Laguna's support is absolutely top notch. If Hytech was in business when I was shopping I'm sure they would have been a strong competitor. One HUGE thing to think about is... what's your time worth? Think about it, you buy an inexpensive machine and then spent several weeks getting it up and running so where's the savings? When I ordered my Laguna the delivery was in 6 weeks. By the time the machine arrived I had 4 signs to carve. Bob from Laguna arrived for two days to set up the machine and train me. My training wasn't practice stuff it was work we had sold. We were producing signs that generated money from day one. If you are a hobby carver you have the luxury to tinker with a bargain machine and chances are you'll get it going just fine. If you need the machine to generate money, go with a mainstream company with good support and a proven controller.
Someday every things gonna be different... When I paint my masterpiece
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SHOPBOT ~ How much should I bid at auction? 04 Oct 2016 16:53 #11

  • Jerry Stanek
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Need more infoon it what size is it is it a standard or alpha does it have a spindle is there any design software with it. The shopbot control software is a free download is there and tooling with it. Is there a buyers premium to pay.

SHOPBOT ~ How much should I bid at auction? 04 Oct 2016 18:12 #12

  • Dan Sawatzky
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When we first looked at routers ten years ago I did a LOT of research. I'm not a computer type guy nor am I a mechanic by any stretch of the imagination. I didn't want to sort out the setting up of the machine, or if something went sideways I only wanted to make a call to fix it. The fact is I did not want to ever think about my machine - only operate it. I looked at every machine out there at the time. I decided the best track for us was to buy a top end machine with a company that provided high end service. In fact as part of my deal I negotiated two years of bumper to bumper service and warrantee into the contract (instead of the usual one year).

I made scores of phone calls to people across North America who owned routers, asking what machine they owned, what software and what kind of service support did they enjoy with their dealer. Many told me they started with a basic machine and quickly upgraded to a better one. That struck me as a silly business decision as it was spending a lot of time, money and effort twice. Most people I talked with were pretty loyal to the router they owned but one machine manufacturer quickly rose to the top of the pile and that was MultiCam. They also offered one of the pricier machines.

EnRoute was recommended to me as a software which was relatively easy to learn but with no limits in terms of capability.

I purposely did not put a paying project on my router for the first three months. instead I designed and ran samples. I also used those three months to learn painting and finishing techniques. I literally filled a dumpster with mistakes and things that worked our poorly but at the same time we created many, many awesome sample pieces that still look good to this day. In the process I learned the software inside out. I learned about bitmaps and how to use them to create incredible textures of all kinds. Those scores of dimensional sample signs helped me sell high end work.

Spending that kind of money was pretty freaky. We decided to lease the machine with software over a four year period with a small buyout price at the end - just to be safe. But we needn't have worried for the machine paid for itself within the first year and that included all of the time I spent building the samples. My investment in a high end machine and software along with the time to learn how to use the machine has paid off handsomely.

You get what you pay for after all is said and done.

My advice to anyone I speak with is to spend enough money to buy a quality machine with top end service. Build into your budget enough time to learn to use it properly. Then use your samples that you made while learning to sell the highest quality creative work you are able.

It pays off!

-grampa dan
Dan Sawatzky
Sawatzky's Imagination Corporation
Yarrow, British Columbia, Canada

www.imaginationcorporation.com


Being a grampa is the most wonderful thing!
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SHOPBOT ~ How much should I bid at auction? 04 Oct 2016 18:51 #13

  • James Dawson
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Dan Sawatzky wrote:
When we first looked at routers ten years ago I did a LOT of research. I'm not a computer type guy nor am I a mechanic by any stretch of the imagination. I didn't want to sort out the setting up of the machine, or if something went sideways I only wanted to make a call to fix it. The fact is I did not want to ever think about my machine - only operate it. I looked at every machine out there at the time. I decided the best track for us was to buy a top end machine with a company that provided high end service. In fact as part of my deal I negotiated two years of bumper to bumper service and warrantee into the contract (instead of the usual one year).

I made scores of phone calls to people across North America who owned routers, asking what machine they owned, what software and what kind of service support did they enjoy with their dealer. Many told me they started with a basic machine and quickly upgraded to a better one. That struck me as a silly business decision as it was spending a lot of time, money and effort twice. Most people I talked with were pretty loyal to the router they owned but one machine manufacturer quickly rose to the top of the pile and that was MultiCam. They also offered one of the pricier machines.

EnRoute was recommended to me as a software which was relatively easy to learn but with no limits in terms of capability.

I purposely did not put a paying project on my router for the first three months. instead I designed and ran samples. I also used those three months to learn painting and finishing techniques. I literally filled a dumpster with mistakes and things that worked our poorly but at the same time we created many, many awesome sample pieces that still look good to this day. In the process I learned the software inside out. I learned about bitmaps and how to use them to create incredible textures of all kinds. Those scores of dimensional sample signs helped me sell high end work.

Spending that kind of money was pretty freaky. We decided to lease the machine with software over a four year period with a small buyout price at the end - just to be safe. But we needn't have worried for the machine paid for itself within the first year and that included all of the time I spent building the samples. My investment in a high end machine and software along with the time to learn how to use the machine has paid off handsomely.

You get what you pay for after all is said and done.

My advice to anyone I speak with is to spend enough money to buy a quality machine with top end service. Build into your budget enough time to learn to use it properly. Then use your samples that you made while learning to sell the highest quality creative work you are able.

It pays off!

-grampa dan

I'm with Dan on this one. I bought my first Multicam 9 years ago. It was their entry level machine with tons of upgrades, a tool changer, and vision system. I never wasted time wondering if my machine was going to run, or what I had to work on that day. I just programmed it and laughed all the way to the bank.

I am now on my 2nd machine and upgraded to a 3000 series with all the same vision and changer add ons. My machine starts and runs almost all day every day and there has never been a thought in my mind about how I could have saved $$$ cutting this corner or that. I also sold my used machine at 7 years old for a nice price. It was still in amazing condition.

I'm not going to knock what anyone is trying here, but if you want a bulletproof machine that gives you peace of mind. Multicam is where its at for me.

SHOPBOT ~ How much should I bid at auction? 04 Oct 2016 20:29 #14

  • Lynda Wayne
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This machine is built by the accused channel letter makers. Don't know if these pics will come through

SHOPBOT ~ How much should I bid at auction? 04 Oct 2016 20:36 #15

  • Lynda Wayne
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Let me try again...accubend channel letter machines. Here's the second pic.

The price list for the Echo

SHOPBOT ~ How much should I bid at auction? 12 Oct 2016 13:39 #16

  • Leo Voisine
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Lynda,

All machines are basically the same.

There is an axis drive motor, some sort of motion control (ball screws, chain drive, rack/pinion, etc) and some rails of some sort.

Almost all of the smaller entry level and many larger heavy duty machines have stepper motors, there are basically 3 size ranges NEMA17, NEMA23, NEMA34 The larger industrial machines have servo motors.

The drive system is most likely a ACME screw.

The rails are most likely round rods. If they are unsupported I would pass on that.

There is really no information provided abut the machine so it is basically impossible to give any professional impression about the machine. Even on the website there is really no information.

One thing I will say. It only has 3" of "Z" axis height - that is quite limiting.

I cannot compare to inventables, x-carve, shark, or the other benchtop started machines, as I don't have any experience with any of them, though I have heard better comments about the probotics machine.
Leo

www.leosworkshop.com
Solidworks
Aspire
2424 Larken Camtol
MAXNC
Mach3
full hobby/sign/light business shop
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SHOPBOT ~ How much should I bid at auction? 12 Oct 2016 20:30 #17

  • Patrick Stoning
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you are never going to want to cut vinyl on your router. just not worth the headache, surfacing and trying to get it right headache. You are going to be way better off with Vectric V carve pro for software. You don't need the clamps you will quickly be making ones that work for your work flow.

Their dust show is over priced, get a kent dust shoe. Their zero setter is over priced, get a makers edge triple edge finder.
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